Comments on Copenhagenize.com - Bicycle Culture by Design: Overcomplicating Winter Cycling - Why It's Bad

I do see the motivation for this but I think that ...

2012-01-20T23:07:44.435+01:00

I do see the motivation for this but I think that people do realise that you can cycle in 'regular' clothes. People in every city all around the world do it every single day.

Personally I've been cycling for a long time in my regular clothes but have recently bought some cycle-specific clothes - although these aren't 'sports' clothes and look ok for regular wear too. Simply because I'm riding longer and faster now and it's pleasant to change clothes when I get to work etc.

Seems, to me, to be a bit like that whole Ugg boot argument - does it really matter?

I ride for transport, but I ride in a very windy, ...

2012-01-16T15:42:49.073+01:00

I ride for transport, but I ride in a very windy, hilly city, and when it rains, it RAINS. (Edinburgh since you ask).
Now I could wear office clothes, but I'm often much comfier wearing a jacket made for cycling, if I'm going a long distance (ie over ten miles or so) then I may well stick on trousers made for cycling. Equally if I'm nipping to the train station to go to a meeting I might just wear a suit. But so what? I'm still a "citizen cyclist", sometimes you may consider me chic, sometimes you may look down your nose at the way I dress, but so what, at least I am out on a bike proving to people that it *can* be done round this town, and not only that it's fun.
I looked at "Kaputnik"'s infographic, as another pointed out, it's merely a funny little cartoon explaining what he sometimes chooses to wear just now on his bike. Nothing more, nothing less. It certainly doesn't justify an attack as being anti any form of cyclist. Have a look at the links to the infographic and you will find that out.

Not one of your better blog pieces I'm afraid :-(
Smudge

Mr. Copenhagenize has a real problem with 'env...

2012-01-16T14:37:52.924+01:00

Mr. Copenhagenize has a real problem with 'environmentalists' and 'cyclists' (unless they're Citizen Cyclists ® © Copenhagenize Consulting).

There are a whole load of things wrong with this article. First, the history. Cycling boom in the 1960s/1970s was driven by myriad factors, amongst the most important were.....environmentalism and sports cycling. The others were fashion (especially in the 1960s and late 1970s), and post 1973 oil crisis, fuel prices.

The reason why sports cycling is marketed by bicycle companies nowadays is because the car manufacturers were just too successful. Bicycles are now marketed as a niche product in many countries because that is exactly what they are, like it or not. In much of the West, cars are dominant and places like Copenhagen, Amsterdam etc. are very much the exception. Developing countries are abandoning bicycles for cars, look at what's happening in China and India.

Yes, marketing is important but it won't produce change alone. It is a pity that Mr. Copenhagenize attacks cyclists who don't have the good fortune to live in enlightened countries like Denmark and the Netherlands. You know, he is starting to sound just as preachy as those he accuses!

What an amazingly humourless article, apparently o...

2012-01-16T13:48:29.696+01:00

What an amazingly humourless article, apparently on the back of a cute little cartoon from a sporting cyclist that asks the question "what do you wear?" and does not give any "advice" or tell people what they should or should not wear while on the bike.
Unlike this article.
Min

Unfortunately I feel like Copenhagenize (copyright...

2012-01-11T20:57:52.772+01:00

Unfortunately I feel like Copenhagenize (copyright) is it's own sometimes slightly insidious subculture (brand) that most often promotes riding around in heels and short skirts for the viewing pleasure of the flaneur. Life is about sub-sets & tribes it's about being human. So it seems is fighting.

More people riding, for whatever reason in whatever & on whatever.

2012-01-11T20:37:02.141+01:00

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I'm in my seventh winter of daily commuting an...

2012-01-09T17:46:13.746+01:00

I'm in my seventh winter of daily commuting and still haven't bought any cycling clothes--sweats, two layers, two pairs of gloves, earmuffs and a windbreaker. In the summer I wear regular shorts and a t-shirt. No "kit" but I ride 110 miles every week. I totally agree with this article.

@Aleta (if you are still reading) -- a good source...

2012-01-09T14:09:05.977+01:00

@Aleta (if you are still reading) -- a good source of hats that fit under helmets is foxwear.net. Outdoor clothing sewn from stretch polarfleece and similar fabrics. You can order hats and balaclavas at a good price, in your choice (from what is available) of fabric thickness and color.

Another good choice is a thin wool beanie/sock-hat. Rivendell (yes, bicycle-specific) sells some. You can wear it off the bike, it works fine there, too.

What limits me in the cold is fingers (especially pinky) getting cold. I've done ten mile rides into a 20mph headwind at 20F, and if I have a wind shell, it's easy (for me) to work up a sweat in the core. If I had to do it day-after-day, or ride in much colder weather, I'd look into something to block the wind from my hands, like Pogies. But that's a bike accessory, not a piece of clothing.

I say let people learn for themselves. Generally p...

2012-01-08T03:31:26.002+01:00

I say let people learn for themselves. Generally people buy more than they need to. We need to encourage people to ride because it's awesome and fun and has a ton of other benefits. Plus there is something bad a about riding in the winter and if your someone who's even considering riding in the winter that puts you in another category. If your actually thinking about what clothes to wear, to me, that already means you've crossed the line over to bike commuter. The dissision doesn't rest on the clothing.

Just a. Quick note to the writer, almost all magazines are funded through advertising. Very few if any survive on subscription alone.

Great article though. Food for thought for sure.

We touched on this last year on our blog after rid...

2012-01-08T00:27:26.866+01:00

We touched on this last year on our blog after riding to our local brewery/taproom and finding pure unbroken snow around the bike rack each weekend. This city is popular with cyclists, but going out in sub-15F weather isn't that common.

We came to the same conclusion you did with regards to normal clothing, but the only thing I'd add would be to keep in mind the windchill when figuring out what to wear. 15F @ 10mph is a 3F windchill, before any headwind is taken into affect.

Oh, and make sure your bike is ready to go before you head out. Spending 10min pumping tires, putting on lights, etc will cause your body temperature to drop, leaving you starting out cold (and a loooong time before you start generating heat from riding).

"Four decades of sub-cultural finger-wagging,...

2012-01-07T22:42:01.515+01:00

"Four decades of sub-cultural finger-wagging, guilt trips and preaching have given few results among the general population."

This is not exactly correct. In many places it is currently resulting in a considerable backlash among the general population.

Horses for courses is all it boils down to. Much a...

2012-01-07T15:51:08.261+01:00

Horses for courses is all it boils down to. Much as we'd all love to have Copenhagen's facilities and foresight it's not the case and trying to homogenise things or castigate those who need to approach things differently isn't helpful.
Maybe it's time to don some lycra, join a commuter race a few inches from some speeding HGV's and experience how the other half live.
A good if slightly misguided effort, keep it up, at least we're talking about it!

"It all depends on the time spend on the bike...

2012-01-07T13:59:20.270+01:00

"It all depends on the time spend on the bike going from one point to the other."

Couldn't agree more. I commute everyday about 4km each way (lucky me!), so even in the depths of winter I just wear an old Ventile parka, scarf, woollen hat and gloves over the top of my working clothes, with a waxed cotton hat and a pair of overtrousers in my bag for when it's pouring. But if I was cycling 10km each way I'd want at least a much better waterproof.

The question is, does the bother of carrying it around and putting it on outweigh the convenience of having it when the weather's vile? On Thursday morning I biked in through a gale-driven downpour which soon had the roads awash, and arrived with water squelching in my shoes. I thought in retrospect that wearing the Gore-Tex gaiters I've got somewhere up in the attic might have been a good idea: but it's the only time in four winters that it's ever happened to me; so I think that I shall leave them where they are.

Mudguards though: essential. Last winter was pretty cold and snowy by UK standards, and there was a discussion on the "Guardian" cycling blog about how to avoid frozen feet. I was amazed to find that most of those posting didn't have mudguards at all, or see why they should. It made me feel as though I was trying to explain birth control to some remote tribe who don't see any causal connection between sex and pregnancy.

Dissagree! Alpine gloves, wollen underwear, boots...

2012-01-07T10:08:39.525+01:00

Dissagree!
Alpine gloves, wollen underwear, boots with fur innercoating, + items from tour skiing clothes + bag with stylish work clothes + towel trips makes longer than 10 km so much more better in interesting weather.
/mh

It all depends on the time spend on the bike going...

2012-01-07T06:52:31.074+01:00

It all depends on the time spend on the bike going from one point to the other. While cycling for shopping around in town I wear regular clothes, for commuting to work into another town with no shelter on the way I'm wearing more suitable clothing.

I like this cartoon: http://bikeyface.com/2011/12/07/bracing-for-winter/

2012-01-07T06:49:14.263+01:00

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This article, and for the most part this blog, per...

2012-01-07T03:57:55.203+01:00

This article, and for the most part this blog, pertains to urban cycling conditions; places of high population density where the vast majority of people in the world live. While true athletic respect is due, those of you that have commented about commuting 16 to 20 miles each way (bicycle or not), are not by a long shot the majority that could be influenced to cycle. Most of us, even those within the sprawl of American cities, live in (or near) urban centers and have shorter and easier trips to work, school, bars and shopping than we would like to let on. Unfortunately, on these simple trips, we spend alot of time idling in traffic.

It is human nature to be attracted to solutions that are more complicated. The point of this post is to point out, perhaps, that we have to rattle ourselves a bit to understand that simplicity can work--regardless of geography and culture.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I imagine the differ...

2012-01-07T00:00:17.384+01:00

Not to beat a dead horse, but I imagine the difference in clothing between Denmark and the US has a lot to do with average length of commute than cultural issues (e.g. the hegemony of non-Citizen Cyclists).

I can tell the folks who live in DC and commute a mile or two to their jobs in DC: they wear "normal" clothes. I wear normal clothes when I use Bikeshare to get around town.

But when I'm riding 20 miles to work in 20 degree weather, I'm going to wear specialized clothing. I suppose if I slowed down and rode at 5 miles per hour I could get by in a pea coat, wool sweater, and some jeans over cotton long-johns, but then by the time I got to work, it would be time to come home.

If we could change one thing in urban US that would get more people on bikes, it's putting more houses closer to jobs. John Forester, or "That Guy Wearing That Jacket He Bought From Performance" has very little to do with it.

Having said all that, I think you're an important voice to have out there, Mikael, and hope you'll keep at it--even if we do needle you on occasion.

Infographic about winter cycling with shorts
2012-01-06T19:49:24.962+01:00
Infographic about winter cycling with shorts on it?

Winter, weather and the needs of people are different in different places, indeed.

The dialog here is somewhat petty. Recently, an ar...

2012-01-06T18:56:48.213+01:00
The dialog here is somewhat petty. Recently, an article in Bicycle Magazine (USA)was befuddled as the author reasoned there was no "label" for people who rode bikes, ie: to school, work and to the supermarket. This is Mikael's point. The bike industry does not know how to grow a customer base unless they can call it something. How about it folks? I'm a 4 season rider with over 30 years experience on USA streets and roads but in the end I am nothing more than a guy who rides his bike. Bicycling is not why I ride its how I roll. If all bike riders in the USA were 4 season riders then the momentum will continue. It is unlikely though until the bike industry markets that message.

Meh. It depends. Clearly written by a city dwell...

2012-01-06T17:48:01.215+01:00
Meh.

It depends. Clearly written by a city dweller. How far is the commute/ride? If it's not more than a few miles in urban conditions where it's easy to bail somewhere to get warm and dry, then sure, you don't need specialized gear.

I ride 16 miles each way to work through suburban wasteland housing tracts, cow pastures, and vineyards. Ain't no place to stop and get warm or get out of the weather. If you flat in the dark, it's a looooong dark (no streetlights) walk or a chilly and sometimes wet adventure swapping/repairing your tube. Do I use specialized gear? Damn straight I do.

I think the idea should be that if you live in a c...

2012-01-06T17:18:45.990+01:00
I think the idea should be that if you live in a colder climate you should have appropriate clothes for being outside when the weather is cold. These don't need to be special cycling clothes, just warm clothes.

Honestly, the only special cycling gear I'm considering buying is a cycling cap with ear flaps. I haven't found a hat that fits underneath my helmet, and I hate feeling like I have to choose between safety, especially at night, and being cold because my head isn't properly covered. Otherwise I just wear my regular outside clothes, peacoats, flats, jean and all.

Hi Eric, Ta for the comment, have said items, apa...

2012-01-06T16:20:08.741+01:00
Hi Eric,

Ta for the comment, have said items, apart from the chain guard and yup I'm about half as mucky as I was before I had them, still not what I would call office presentable though. If I was to ride slowly to work in even my bestest clothes I'd probably still need to get changed.

The major difference between the top picture and my reality is the bank of snow between the cars and the bikes. And that that path has been scraped and is probably free of debris (for example I had to negotiate through four fallen trees today)

My commute is about 11 miles / 18 KM each way on a mixture of segregated paths, and then the main road right out to the edge of town (past the airport if you've ever been to Edinburgh)

Two days a week I have my daughter on the back to take her to nursery. I don't have a stable of carbon-fibre 2gram racing bikes in my garage, just a well maintained steel bullet proof commuter bike.

Again, I make no claims that my preference as being the only rational approach, it's just the approach that works for me. Unlike say a site which claims we should always dress in a certain way to ride a bike based on best-case facilities, and to do otherwise makes you a bad person.

The thing is, I don't really care to be honest and wouldn't burn my biblongs in defence of my right to wear stretchy pants, I'm just wary of people who say you're wrong I'm right (as opposed to people who just say I'm right :) )

And as I said, I love the work of MC, and would love him to come and sort out Edinburgh for us so we could be the model cycling city our council keeps banging on about being.

But he just comes off like the Richard Dawkins of cycling sometimes, and just felt the urge to spring to the defence of a friend.

Let me to write about the topic, the encouragement...

2012-01-06T15:48:44.037+01:00
Let me to write about the topic, the encouragement. Sorry, I am not a special writer, just an ordinary father who like to seat my daughters on child seats of my Mama Bicycle.

(And I am only a English learner, so forgive me for my poor English.)

I have just finished writing my entry tonight which coincidentally resembles to your entry, yes a winter ride and some winter tools.

I have also remember to read your article which were related to this topic. I wrote about it one year ago, and here is my entry's link ;http://mamabicycle.blogspot.com/2011/04/to-nearby-park.html

I agree with your opinion. I ride my bicycle as other ordinary parents naturally do (although none of them write about it like me, it doesn't matter.)

Mass marketing to an ordinary people is only way to the best goal of the encouragement, I agree with the idea.

Ah, I just wanted to say a word tonight.
Good night.

Steph, "It's cold in Edinburgh, our cycle...

2012-01-06T15:45:37.719+01:00
Steph, "It's cold in Edinburgh, our cycle facilities as they are are generally uncleared and mucky, and the on-road provision is generally a corrosive mess of salt and road gunge."

I think that pretty much sums up the picture at the top of this blog post. I recommend fenders/mudguards, a mudflap and a chainguard for staying clean. I know we're not supposed to overcomplicate things but I really think a mudflap is about 10 000 times more useful for winter cycling than a Buff (I have one of each).

I doubt the time saved going fast compensates the time taken to change clothes. If it floats your boat then do it anyway. But be careful portraying your preference as being the only rational approach.